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The Giants are adding Personal Seat licenses to their new stadium seats when it opens in 2 years.

The article states that about a dozen teams use PSLs, and that the Cowboys' for their new stadium ranges from $16k to $150k.

And with this venture the G-Men are only clearing $200 mil?

How long before the rest of the league follows suit?
click here

Probably as long as it takes all the teams to get new stadiums. My guess is that it is split between new and existing. The biggest problem with PSL's (besides the almighty dollar) is the total lack of turnover for season tickets. At least that is the case here in Philly, and I imagine it'll do the same to NY.

I have to say it's still kind of shocking to think that Bannercorp didn't charge those of us in the upper bowl for PSLs. It's one of the few decent things this team has done for the fans.

I think they called me late in the summer that first year of the new stadium to offer me some
season tickets. I was excited to take the call...

...until I learned that we were talking about unsold Club Level seats. I think they wanted $7,000 for two PSLs. Or maybe it was $7k per seat. I think the feeling was a mix between laughter and getting punched in the stomach.

"The Giants are adding Personal Seat licenses to their new stadium seats when it opens in 2 years."

So are the Jets. If the cost of the stadium is shared between the two, shouldn't the seat licenses that help pay for that stadium also be shared?

Sounds like NY fans are getting ripped off a bit. Which puts a little spring in my step this morning.

HEre's something about the Eagles refusing to pay $8 million they owe the city
link

Banner would rather buy Coke instead of Dr. Thunder than pay this bill.

Is anybody surprised by this debt? I mean, all you have to do is listen to stories from ex-players who had to negotiate contracts with Lurie and Banner.

since it is a debt assumed when the team was purchased, i will give the team a bit of consideration here. if winslow twp where i live wanted me to pay 8K in property taxes that were from a previous owner, even if it was stated in the deed when i purchased this house 22 yrs ago, i think i would still be reluctant to pay.

cut a deal. straight down the middle. team pays 4 mil. one lump sum, no installments. the city wipes away the remaining debt and its expunged from the books forever.

NO DEAL


We'll take our chances with Judge Judy!

I don't know why they'd do this just from a PR standpoint. I mean the gov paid for their new stadium

Good ole Lurie/Banner

wes48
RE: PSLs
Reply
7/4/2008 1:33 AM


Is anybody surprised by this debt? I mean, all you have to do is listen to stories from ex-players who had to negotiate contracts with Lurie and Banner.


Are you saying that Lurie is a cheap fkn bastard... Or that Banner is a money grubbing jackass...

Since you asked...

I don't think the organization is necessarily cheap. After all, they were perfectly happy to go out and pay whatever it took to get a high end fashion designer like Vera Wang to come up with those cheerleader bikinis that look like they came from Sears or Boscov's. And I'm sure it wasn't cheap getting Sly Stallone to put in an appearance at the opening ceremonies for the Linc.

The problem, as I see it, is arrogance. All that stuff has nothing to do with running a football team. But it has everything to do with making certain people feel dashing and well-connected and cool.

I think that attitude also applies to the players.
Ray Didinger, I believe, has pointed out that the Eagles generally pay around the NFL average, per position. And many people have said that once Lurie and Banner get a figure in their minds, they won't budge. So I think they take a look at what everyone's getting paid and shoot for somewhere in the middle. That's not cheap. Cheap is Norman Braiman paying Reggie White less than a million dollars a year.

But it is arrogant. Why? Because it says that talent isn't that important. Competence is all that's needed. And why's that? Because the team has such a great System in place.

Look back through interviews with Lurie, Banner and most definitely Reid and you'll find that on numerous occasions, each one has said that no one player is greater than The System. Never mind that that system is the West Coast Offense which Bill Walsh specifically created around Joe Montana to take advantage of his perculiar brilliance. Never mind that the only time that system ever really worked in this city was 2004, when you had T.O. to stretch the field and a really talented group of receiving tight ends led by Chad Lewis.

It's arrogance to believe that quality players like Ike Reese and Brian Mitchell aren't necessary. It's arrogance to get rid of a key team leader like Jerimiah Trotter right before a season where the coaching staff is obviously distracted. And of course, it's arrogance to keep throwing the ball when you don't have anyone to catch it.

It's possible this attitude might be changing. I don't know how serious they really were about acquiring Randy Moss but I don't think they'd have even considered it a few years ago. Maybe they're getting scared. This could be Dawkins' last year. It's almost certainly Runyon's. And from now on, McNabb's health is always gonna be a question. Personally, I think the window of opportunity has pretty much closed. But after the Giants' season last year, I'll admit that anything's possible. What I am certain about is that within three years, nearly everyone who made The System worth talking about will be gone. We'll be rebuilding. Yet again.

And then the organization isn't gonna to look cool at all.

"But it is arrogant. Why? Because it says that talent isn't that important. Competence is all that's needed. And why's that? Because the team has such a great System in place."

This sounds more like a description of Reid.

I've often wondered how much they (Reid, Lurie & Banner) are tied to each other. They all came into NFL power at roughly the same time and had a good deal of success. I think it has blinded all of them to outside influences. They are becoming a lot like the Emperor with his new Clothes.

One day, after a protracted bout of losing seasons, Jeffy & Li'l Joe are going to fire Reid. It will come about 3 years too late, but it will come. I wonder how they will deal with it and will they go outside the NovaCare Complex for his replacement.

That may be the one time when public opinion actually matters to them.

If they look around and see that people are so pissed that merchandise sales have plummeted (don't even think about ticket sales ever dropping unless they go on a ten-year losing streak), they might actually look outside the organization to curry favor with the fans and get people excited again.

...sorta like what the Sixers tried to do when they hired Doug Moe...

FWIW, I hate to say this, but I think Reid has a better shot at dying or becoming so ill that he can no longer continue as coach/GM/impresario than he does at being fired. He is not a man who is in good health, and I'm honestly surprised that Lurie and Banner have not protected their investment by hiring trainers and dietitians for him. If I owned the team, I do that plus I'd put a weight clause in his contract. It's for his own good, and he's of no use to the team if he's in the hospital or six feet under.

Reid is getting to the age where his weight and health is going to become a greater risk every year.

Or, if its really just about the money, they should take out a substantial life insurance policy on him and give him a $10,000 gift card for Tony Luke's.

Talon, I think you're right in that they won't fire him. Right now, he swings a bigger dick in the organization that Lurie or Banner. When he won his power play with Modrak, they handed him the keys to the empire.

I don't think they have the stones to ask for them back.

fågelpojke
RE: PSLs
Reply
7/7/2008 9:10 AM



Right now, he swings a bigger dick in the organization that Lurie or Banner.


When was the last time Andy could look down and actually "see" his dick.

Lurie and Banner make Shylock look like a drunken sailor. They're nothing but swindlers and cheats just like the rest of them. This team needs to be given back to the Arabs and the T-Warehouse needs to be given back to the Native Americans.

I don't think Lurie and Banner are swindlers. Having sat through Marion Campbell, Rich Kotite and Ray Rhodes, I'm relatively satisfied with the product they've put out there. I do, however, think their priorities are skewed and that's at least part of why we haven't won a championship.

But like some of you are saying, it's very possible that Reid is the ultimate root of the problem. Remember that Giants game last year where McNabb was sacked 12 times, six of them because Winston Justus was too inexperienced to handle his position? I heard G. Cobb on WIP a day or two later and apparently, his sources said that at the half no one even brought up the sacks. Hello? The game is already slipping away. The franchise quarterback is injury prone and he's getting hammered like a ten penny nail. And no one dared to suggest that a change might have to be made.

Cobb reported this in a kind of dazed tone. Being an ex-player, you can't blame him. Hell, I was no athlete but I played enough sports to know that a good coach listened to his players once in a while. It's part of what makes a team a real team. Yet in this case, with so much at stake, even McNabb, who was taking all that punishment, didn't feel he could speak up.

And I do agree that Lurie and Banner would have a very hard time firing Reid. Consider this: The majority of the ticket revenue probably comes from those club seats. Out of curiosity I priced one when the Linc opened. in 2002, the face price per game was $175. There was also a PSL somewhere over $3000 per seat and each ticket plan required a commitment of five years. No matter how you slice it, that's a big part of the Eagles' budget. The problem for the team is that the people who buy these seats are probably the least committed fans. They're corporate types who want to impress their clients or McMansion types who want to impress everybody else with how much money they can throw around. Most of these people have no idea who, say, Omar Gaither is. They're not really there for the game itself. They're there to make a scene that seems glitzy and high profile because a bunch of superstar athletes are involved. And sometimes the organization grants access to those superstars just to make sure the high rollers feel they're getting their money's worth.

OK. To each his own. But right now most of the Eagles superstars are at the end of their careers. It won't be long before the only name the really casual fan will recognize is Brian Westbrook. And of course, Andy Reid. "The winningest coach in Eagles history." "The guy who took us to the Big Game." Never mind that many of those wins came when the NFC East was the softest division in the NFL. Never mind that if we'd had anything remotely like a real running attack we could have won the Big Game.

The point is, Andy Reid may well be here for another five years, which is how long it'll take for those club seats to come up for renewal again. He'll never retire due to injury, like a player. And no one seems to care about his job performance. Why be a guaranteed winner when he's the guaranteed star power the organization can produce should any of the big spenders get restless?

So do I feel swindled? Not really. I'm looking forward to watching Asante Samuel, whose massive salary is made possible in part by those clubs seats. I just wish the ownership would realize their priority for now should be on winning a campionship, pure and simple. Because if they can do that, all that fancy financial stuff will fall neatly into line.

Here's what I think typifies the image of the Eagles FO. The GM game has nothing to do with aquiring players or answering needs. Its simply an exercise in maximizing profit.
click here

AAAHHhhhhh, Wes....all of those issues were raised by numerous posters many times over the years. Some of us even WHILE the Eagles were winning cuz we could see the writing on the wall.

As for the "throw around money" types. Don't confuse them. There are plenty of tards in the 'bleeds. Not all that glitters is gold and not all those who wander are lost and not all those who shell out fortunes on PSLs for club seats are ignorant of the game/team.

I've been to club seats in many games (not Philly because I don't live there). Just feel toooo removed from the game. It is almost better to watch the game at home than go to the club seats of some stadiums. The fare generally sucks. So what if you can get cheesecake instead of dipping dots? Both suck. Well, cookies and cream dipping dots are ok. That didn't mean that there were people ignorant of the game, the players, etc in those seats. Just those who felt they wanted a haven to view the game. Stupid? Yes. Does that equate to people just trying to show off? No. If a rich person drives a nice car, sometimes its actually because they like the car and want to drive it. Not to impress people. I imagine some would, but certainly not all.

Wes, your price is approximately correct, as was the 5 year agreement. But when we investigated back in 2003, I think we had our choice between PSL and less money per ticket per game, or club seats with no PSL but more money per game. I don't believe all club seats had a PSL associated with them, and if I'm not mistaken, there were PSL's for some non-club seats.

Lurie and Banner are happy to rip us ALL off, not just the Club Level patrons, squeezing every dime here and there (4th place last year and a full stadium again this year), and watching every penny that goes out the door (i.e. not paying $8 mil owed to the city).

Your description of the Club level patrons is a little skewed – not horribly, but a little. Jules hit it on the head, except we don’t give a rat's ass about the fare/food – fill up at the tailgate and have a couple of beers inside. There are some of us up there who know a lot about the game and the team (not counting my Bleed predictions). And, in the early season, hot, late summer games, the chicks ain’t bad either.

I bought some tickets that happened to be in the club level a few seasons back. It was nothing fancy - just a separate food court. Not much different from upper tier seats, really.

Guys, I'm not trying to slam the entire club seat section. It's a very big group and I have no doubt that some of the fans are as committed as anyone in the stadium. Jules, you are absolutely right, there are some total idiots who sit in the upper deck and over the years, unfortunately, a few have certainly sat around me. And Thongdar, from what I understand, nearly all nonclub seats were subject to a PSL, even the first few rows of the upper level. So pretty much everyone got skinned in that fashion.

My point is that over the years Lurie and Banner have made some very bad decisions regarding players but they might make an absolutely catastrophic one regarding the coach. As much as anything I'm basing this on what I've seen with the Flyers and the Sixers. Now I think Ed Snider is a pretty enlightened owner, at least in terms of hockey. But I also think that some of his most questionable moves, like keeping Bob Clarke in the GM slot for far too long, or hanging on to Eric Lindros or Allen Iverson after they'd both become major distractions, were motivated by a desire to attract corporate clients with marquee names. I do have some experience of the club seat/luxury box scene at the Wachovia Center and I know it's an ongoing challenge to keep those contracts filled.

I can't help thinking that this is at least part of the reason the organization keeps backing Reid even while his flaws become ever more apparent. I mean, no other head coach in the NFL has been in his position so long without winning a championship. If, like everything else the organization does, there's a profit motive here, I'm guessing the club seats are it.

But I'm definitely not trying to start a class war here. As far as I'm concerned, we're all in this together.

Wes, didn't think you were trying to incite. Just clarifying that it is difficult to paint with too broad a brush.

As for Reid, I think you will find literally EVERYONE on this site of the same mind as you regarding Reid. He's too stubborn, too stagnant, too smitten by his genius, too convinced of his "system", etc. He's not evolved and the rest of the league (and his defensive coordinator) have.

As for owner with good heart but dumb mind, the honors go to Arthur Blank. That guy is a tard.

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