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does the trend of superbowl loser going into the tank continue? The Pats won't be able to bring back Moss and Stallworth so they will lose at least one... I am sure they have the talent and coaching to be god next year but does anyone think they could struggle next year?

This is a type of loss that will take them years to get over. Not to mention how Bradichek looked like poor losers at the end.

It'd be foolish to think this invalidates their accomplishments (the cheating stuff might do that), but this loss is going to sting for a long time.

I don't see the Patriots suffering from the Super Bowl Hangover. Just look at last year. They fell to the Colts in the AFCCG and totally revamped their WR corps and added Thomas on defense.

Unlike the Eagles, when the Patriots fall short they actually try and do something to fix it. They go to plan B, not Play A recycled.

Plan A*

the only problem is the Pats problem, at least what appears to me as the problem is the age of their D, half line and most LB"s are pretty old, and need replacement...

I have to say it will be nice to know Harrison and Seau will retire ( I really hope) without that ring. I almost got sick when Brady drove down scored the TD and then they showed those to old men hugging and smiling on the sidelines, I just wish there was a picture of them after Plax caught the game winner, but they probably ran off the field to cry with the coach and Brady

Just look at last year. They fell to the Colts in the AFCCG and totally revamped their WR corps and added Thomas on defense.

Their defense is pretty old, they don't have many playmakers aside from the old guys, and it'll be hard to muster up the same type of drive that got them to the Super Bowl.

Plus with the rumors about Belichek being suspended for a year?

They still have a lot of good talent, and they have a top pick, but they loaded up for this year and lost. It'll be hard for them to recover next year.

Of course, they will also be picking in the 8 spot or so next year.

Plus with the rumors about Belichek being suspended for a year?

Where is this rumor coming from? It sounds absurd.

It's off of Taco Bell's crew, but they lifted it off of Sal Pal.

Basically, if Mike Walsh produces videotape of the Rams' walkthrough for SB36, Belly's suspended for a year.

it does sound absurd....

in turns of a hangover....If this cheating thing turns out to be as deep as it sounds (with this Matt Walsh thing..I can se him on 60 minutes already, pimping his book as Bellichek's assassin) it could have devastating effects on this aging team. The Kraft's are a very classy family who are extremely embarrassed about this cheating scandal. It certainly doesn't fit into the business model they have spent years developing. If this Walsh guy comes out shooting, it could ABSOLUTELY diminish every single "W" the Patriots have ever had. Seriously...TAPING THE WALKTHROUGH of your opponent the game before the superbowl is a very big deal. Kurt Warner recently pointed out the longstanding effects that 3 point (i think it was 3 points, i know they won by a field goal) loss has had on many careers, many families and many lives.

Isn't this double jeopardy?

I mean, they know he was taping teams for years and he turned over an entire library of evidence. This was part of that library, I suppose.

The guy hasn't been with the team for 5 years and if he has a tape in his possession they wouldn't have had any way to get it back from him or even know he still has it.

Further, a walkthrough?

A walkthrough is nothing. The only thing you could hope to gain from something like that is whether or not anyone has a limp.

TMQ sheds some light on the whole situation.

And from what he's saying, fd, that "whole library" was 6 tapes.

Mlew, I gotta think the Krafts at least had to know something about what was going on. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't know all this was happening, but at the same time, let's not ignore the fact that cheating goes on all the time in the NFL with sign-stealing, roids, etc.

Double jeopardy in a legal sense, but even then, I doubt many people will be really satisfied if Belly's suspended for a year.

The bigger issue is if this will harm the NFL's antitrust exempt status with Congress. I guess it probably won't, since too much money is being made by the league now, but this doesn't help at all.

Fd,
I think the issue is the scope of "espionage" the Pats used. This isn't just pointing a camera the wrong way during the game, this is sneaking into a building and setting up video equipment without being seen. than using that video for your preperation of the game.
I am not sure, does a walkthrough show any formations? Or is it just a cardio thing. If it showed what defense the team plans to use or formation the offense plans open up with....than it clearly is a huge advantage..


You bring up a good point re: double Jeopardy....If bellicheck could be suspended for something he did 6 years ago, can players who have admitted to steroid use in the past be stripped of season awards, the Hall of Fame or individual stats? If not, it certainly seems like a double standard.

TMQ's article says that the Rams practiced red zone plays that they never used during the season. Warner felt like NE was on to something because of the way they were able to neutralize them in the red zone.

If that's true, then that's a huge implication, DJ notwithstanding.

I am not sure, does a walkthrough show any formations? Or is it just a cardio thing. If it showed what defense the team plans to use or formation the offense plans open up with....than it clearly is a huge advantage..

It's not a cardio thing, but walkthroughs aren't secretive affairs. Most are held at the team hotel (sometimes in the lobby) or on the field before the game where they could be witnessed by the fans or coaches easily.

We're talking about shorts and t-shirts here...if that. They might be wearing suits for for these things.

Easterbrook is a fag and he's coming off like a whiny little troll-clown.

The idea that Patriots won a Super Bowl because they taped a walkthrough is patently absurd. they normally win games because they are smarter than everyone else in the league.

Is Belichick a dickhead? Yes. Did he likley tape far more than what he turned over to the league? Yup. Did it give them any advantage most of the league didn't also attempt to gain or gain? No.

They beat the Rams because Mike Martz is a stubborn old shit when it comes to the running game.

I believe he cheated, but cheating is a difficult prospect when it comes to the NFL. He didn't pay anyone off. He didn't setup secret hidden cameras or mic the visiting locker rooms...he taped crap anyone could see anyway.

TMQ's article says that the Rams practiced red zone plays that they never used during the season. Warner felt like NE was on to something because of the way they were able to neutralize them in the red zone.

If that's true, then that's a huge implication, DJ notwithstanding.

If they really thought they were onto something, they should have changed things up.

I just don't buy this "Rams instituted brand new plays for red zone, Belichick placed hidden cameras wherever they did a walkthough" nonsense.

The Giants shut down the greatest offense in history yesterday with borderline clowns in the secondary. Does that mean they knew what was coming?

I think it means they played ball control and Bellicheck called a surprising number of plays where Maroney charged straight into the teeth of the best d-line in the NFL.

The funny thing about this Super Bowl is how much it mimics the first Patriots Super Bowl victory (this time with the Giants playing the role of the Patriots).

16 runs and 48 pass attempts against the best pass rush in the league right now. Why?

come on there will be a hangover but they will be back in the playoffs next year no question in my mind, just look at the division they play in, Miami, Jets, and Buffalo... they should still win their division...

Is Belichick a dickhead? Yes. Did he likley tape far more than what he turned over to the league? Yup. Did it give them any advantage most of the league didn't also attempt to gain or gain? No.

Then why do it? Repeatedly and 6 years later?

The Giants shut down the greatest offense in history yesterday with borderline clowns in the secondary. Does that mean they knew what was coming?

No. It means Strahan, Usi and Tuck got to Brady before he could execute. They didn't need to know.

Then why do it? Repeatedly and 6 years later?

Why has he listed Tom Brady on the injury reports as "Shoulder, probable" every Sunday for the last 5 years?

The guy is a psycho.

Any advantage it gave them was probably psychological the more I think about it. It made them feel like they had an edge and it made the other team maybe over-think things.

FD, the example you provided is apples to oranges.

If it hasn't helped you in 6 years, I think it is safe to discard the approach.

How does it help them to list Brady as probable every week for the last few years, though?

Has it helped them in any measurable way?

I'm guessing taping the signals was another OCD form of due diligence for this team. They do it because they refuse to let a single stone unturned whether it provides them with a real advantage or not.

Every team steals signals, the Patriots took it one step further. They had their best season after they got busted (minus the ugly end yesterday).

What does that tell you?

They had their best season after they got busted (minus the ugly end yesterday).

What does that tell you?

That R. Moss still had something in the tank to make a really good team almost unbeatable...

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